Author Topic: New Legato and Legato Lite are in production  (Read 5165 times)

Offline AR-T

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Re: New Legato and Legato Lite are in production
« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2019, 06:48:33 PM »
Dear AR-T,
I need your advice, because I have doubts about purchasing that better cable with discount. Since, I'm not usually buy brand cables (to be honest it's little bit expensive for me),

I don't blame you. Most are just some cable, tarted up with a steep price tag, to make you think you are buying something special. When, in most cases, you are not.

We only sell these as a service to our customers. Some customers are into the "I have this brand" sort of thing, and we are happy to accommodate them. We do not sell many to folks who just "heard about you guys somewhere" customers.

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but fully believe in engineering approach (I saw many your posts with measurements; mouser's\digikey's prices for quality cables) and trust your words, I'd like to ask you - is it worth to buy the expensive one (U-BYTE 2 looks reasonable purchase)?

Based on how much it costs us to make one: yes. It does cost a lot more to make. It has lower loss (which really isn't that important), but the impedance is controlled better and is more even, down the length of the cable. And it does have more BW.

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I saw this two plots: http://www.analogresearch-technology.net/data/U-Byte1.jpg and http://www.analogresearch-technology.net/data/U-Byte2.jpg. And my inner perfectionist says me don't be a greedy person.

Greedy? Not sure that is the right word you are searching for. "Too picky" or "too demanding" might be better. As opposed to being a snob, that is broke!

(I don't get people who complain about the price of a $800 USB thingie, and then go out and buy a $900 USB cable. "But, it is special, because.....................")

Anyway............all those plots show is that the cable really is 75R, because a lot ARE NOT.

BTW, where the hell did you find them? They are not on the AR-T site; they are on the obsolete site, and look like something that was probably posted on Audio Circle.

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Also, I think it's unfair to go with only that "free" cable, since you select for me so brilliant crystal -92db@1Hz in Legato Lite

Well, you just got damn lucky! We pre-sorted one that looked like it was pretty good. If I knew it was going to be that damn good, you wouldn't have gotten it! We would have kept that one for ourselves. But, it is not coming out, as it is too much work. So, lucky!

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(I'll go without any cable for that price or with u-byte2). I have doubts with which cable I should go, it seems I need to sell that 100'.
Thank you!!!

100 foot of what?

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ps. I'd like to thank you for SPDIF RX PCB, for all things and advices on the net! I'm feeling thrill of waiting for Legato Lite (it will be my main transport and probably best SPDIF source in my whole city at least)!

We need to know how that little gizmo works, so get to it!

Offline alexm

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Re: New Legato and Legato Lite are in production
« Reply #16 on: August 05, 2019, 08:33:07 PM »
Thank you for the answer!

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Based on how much it costs us to make one: yes. It does cost a lot more to make. It has lower loss (which really isn't that important), but the impedance is controlled better and is more even, down the length of the cable. And it does have more BW.
No more questions, I'd like to have one.

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I don't get people who complain about the price of a $800 USB thingie, and then go out and buy a $900 USB cable. "But, it is special, because....................."
:)

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100 foot of what?
That belden cable.

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We need to know how that little gizmo works, so get to it!
Oh, I wish I could make it faster (but I have "5 years in development" DAC).
« Last Edit: August 05, 2019, 08:34:51 PM by alexm »

Offline drmike

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Re: New Legato and Legato Lite are in production
« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2019, 11:55:41 AM »
hello pat,
are the legatos ready yet? i'd like to buy one.
thanks,
drmike

Offline AR-T

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Re: New Legato and Legato Lite are in production
« Reply #18 on: September 18, 2019, 12:49:59 PM »
No..................with being as sick as I have been................no, way behind. Was looking over the PCB files, on Monday, and hope to get back to it today or tomorrow. Should be soon when I can send the files out to the PCB folks. Hope so, as we need the $$$ to fix the old building up, so I can unload it and bank enough money to keep us in bidnis for as long as we need.

(Damn thing is turning into a money pit. If we wouldn't lose our butts in the deal, I would unload it "as-is". Not only is it taking more money, it has put me in an even fouler mood than I normally am. Aren't you glad you know that now!)

Offline alexm

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Re: New Legato and Legato Lite are in production
« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2019, 01:46:31 PM »
I've got this amazing piece of art. That's definitely AR-T! Thank you very much!!!
It will be my first really HIGH-END source!

Offline AR-T

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Re: New Legato and Legato Lite are in production
« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2019, 05:44:05 PM »
So, how does it sound?

Make sure that you spread the word how good it is. No one believes us, because we are just kooks with strange ideas about clocks and jitter, who are totally clueless.......................

Offline alexm

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Re: New Legato and Legato Lite are in production
« Reply #21 on: October 18, 2019, 03:56:35 AM »
I'll be honest I haven't tried it yet because of lack of good DAC (I gave myself 1 month to finish my DAC).
Anyway, I think AR-T Legato is the best SPDIF source on the market. When I started looking for the source I found many ways\devices, but THIS ONE beat'em all.

P.S. I'll write how it sounds as soon as I'll finish my DAC.
THANK YOU!     
« Last Edit: October 21, 2019, 04:30:44 AM by alexm »

Offline AR-T

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Re: New Legato and Legato Lite are in production
« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2019, 02:17:17 PM »
Whoa there, cowboy....................don't carried away and start saying stuff that isn't true. Because someone will read it and say "hey, do you know what those 2 butt-holes from Texas are saying now?"

Ok, the 2.8xxx MHx bit....................that is 64x fs, which in this case is 44.1 kHz. It would be the same in the XMOS, because that is what the word clock is. Actually, the crappy controller chip (based on a rather old and simplistic micro) runs at 6 MHz. A lot of newer stuff runs a 12 MHz, or even 24 MHz.

And a lot of them use some crappy internal PLL multiplier scheme to come up with the right bit clock (256x fs), which in this case is 11.2896  MHz. While the early units that we made all used a crystal cut at that frequency, the new ones use a cheap clock chip that runs at 22.xxx MHz. IOW, twice what the old ones did, and is divided by 2. A lot of stuff that uses a fixed frequency runs at 512x fs. Since the demand for 256x has dried up, we had to find something decent at 512x. Which is not easy! Much easier to make something really good at 11 MHz than 22 MHz. Trust me. We just got lucky and found something that works really well.

If you buy a reel of 1000, and sort through them. (Hey, this sounds exactly like what we had to do for 11 MHz crystals!) And the usable yield rate is about the same. (IOW, single digits. When you factor in what the usable rate is, you can see why we charge $30 for one. And when you add in the cost of the test equipment, the time and skill needed to do all of this, it might actually be cheaper to use a damn $100 SC-cut crystal, and be done with it! Which we have been planning for a while.....................but not talking about that now, because it will be part of a "transport"/DAC scheme, that will only work with the pair teamed up together.)

Where we will always be running at 44.1 kHz, because that is what our gizmo tells your source, almost everyone else can run at sampling rates up to 384 kHz. Not counting the stuff that does DSD and other stuff we don't bother with. So, yeah, we will be slower than most everyone else, in that respect.

Now, the 400 MHz part.....................

Don't know much about that XMOS stuff, except it seems that you can pump in a 100 MHz clock, and it does something that allows part of the chip to run at 400 MHz, internally. That is just a function of how it works, and probably does so regardless of sampling rate.

Is all that necessary?

Well, we don't think so. We think it is more important to have a very high quality, in terms of close-in phase noise, to run the show. As opposed to having some fancy-schmancy DSP crap generating its own clock, depending on the sampling rate. Even if it did use a really good clock (and we all know that everyone out there thinks they know what a good clock really is and that we are retards), do you really think with all that DSP going on, AND a bunch of PLLs and other exotic math tricks, that the clock will be any good?

Think what you want. We think something else.

Offline gio_b

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Re: New Legato and Legato Lite are in production
« Reply #23 on: March 24, 2020, 04:04:04 PM »
Hi folks !
Is this new legato so on the way ?
External power supply 125/230 volts
50/60hz ? all new transformer are able
To do both...D:
Is this new device able to accept 16 bit  44.1khz
and and its multiples : 88.2 176.4khz ?
And 24 bit 48/96/192khz?
Bnc output of course...
Tks Giovanni.
PS: of course we are toking about an usb to spdif converter XD.

You can have photos of the project and when the finished device will be available ?

Offline AR-T

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Re: New Legato and Legato Lite are in production
« Reply #24 on: March 24, 2020, 06:44:46 PM »
The USB bridge that we use is limited to 96 kHz. We will never do anything higher than that. To be honest, the only reason we even thought about making a 96 kHz version was my neighbor wanted one! We were never happy with the way it worked. That is a very long story, but let us say we only do 44 kHz for reasons that we believe are important. (And nothing to do with we are too lazy to turn 2 clocks on and off.)

As for anything "new".................

If it uses a power transformer, it will be in one box. Costs too much to make an external one, with matching styling. Maybe a SMPS "wall wart". That option keeps the price down, and that is important.

Any will be 120/240 V, and 50/60 Hz.

And that is a reason it will probably be SMPS.

We cannot test for 240 VAC, 50 Hz here at our shop. We have run into problems (almost always in Germany) where the transformers would buzz. Not surprising, as transformers buzzing has always been a problem, and with demand for them dropping, each successive one we try turns out that much worse than the previous ones.

If it is ever made, yes there will be photos here. We are not certain we will even make any, though.

Folks are going to have to ask for them, or it will not happen.

Any other questions....................this is the place to put them!

Offline gio_b

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Re: New Legato and Legato Lite are in production
« Reply #25 on: March 25, 2020, 04:06:18 PM »
So all other   frequencies : 88.2/48/96 khz no
chance to hear them streaming, like tidal, qobuz do?

Offline AR-T

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Re: New Legato and Legato Lite are in production
« Reply #26 on: March 25, 2020, 04:35:34 PM »
There has to be some sort of computer, that does the streaming. The Legato does not connect itself to the 'net.

The computer will resample of those...............whatever they are.............sources. The Legato and the computer can only talk at 44 kHz. Don't ask me to explain how it does it, because I do not know or care. I just know that I can hook up a Legato to any computer, and it will play whatever the computer comes up with.

Even on Linux computers. Which I know even less about how they work.

Offline gio_b

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Re: New Legato and Legato Lite are in production
« Reply #27 on: March 27, 2020, 04:56:09 PM »
Ok, understud.
So we just wait for new one to work
ASAP ?
Tks Giovanni .

Offline AR-T

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Re: New Legato and Legato Lite are in production
« Reply #28 on: March 27, 2020, 06:04:26 PM »
New what?

If you already have one, why would you want another one? It won't do anything the previous ones didn't.

(Not that we are too proud to take more of your money.)

And besides...................there has to be demand for new products, or we are just going to shut that down.

So, you tell us. Who wants what, and what that will be. Or, there will be nothing, and we will work on other stuff.

Capsice?

Offline gio_b

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Re: New Legato and Legato Lite are in production
« Reply #29 on: March 28, 2020, 05:01:09 AM »
We are sorry that you are a little angry, but as I have art legato16 / 44.1 and I was interested in art legato 24/96 if you prepare some.
But if it is a problem ,leave it alone.

Hi Giovanni
Don't say cat until it's in the bag.